When rock stars were musicians

There's been a lot of talk in this presidential campaign recently about politicians being like ordinary citizens -- like "one of us." She's a hockey mom, a PTA member. He's a middle-class, Irish-Catholic "kitchen-table" kind of guy.

I understand how that kinship, real or imagined, can create an affinity for a candidate. Me? I prefer that my political leaders be not so much like me, that they have a longer resume and more sophisticated world view than mine. He's a good guy, but I'm not sure I want my mechanic making decisions that affect my world, locally or globally.

What's this got to do with music? I went to see Journey on Monday night. Before the show, I chatted with some friends who are good and long-time friends with Jonathan Cain, who plays keyboards, piano, guitar, blues harp, sings and writes songs. His resume is impressive, like everyone else in the band. During the show, Journey reminded me that decades ago, a lot of rock stars were musicians, too. They studied music. They were fluent in its theories, versed in techniques. You can hear it in Journey: an integrity, a power and precision you don't hear in many younger bands.  Same with other bands and artists of that era: Yes, Rush, Steely Dan, Zappa, Led Zep, even Van  Halen (or Eddie, at least).

In the 1980s, punk and alternative rock changed a lot of things. For one, it made progressive rock seem stodgy and pretentious. The DIY mentality became a form of rebellion: Rock stars taught themselves how to play their instruments and were proud to say that they couldn't read music, that their sound came from some place visceral, not academic. (We don't need no education.) The Police managed to bridge those two worlds -- tricky feat, that -- but nobody ever accused the Replacements of being musicians.

The DIY principle has its appeal, but it's similar to the regular-guy/gal kinship some voters have with a politician. You know: They look like us. They're one of us. Or: I could do what they're doing. I don't think too many people were thinking that the other night while Neal Schon was playing guitar.

There are some exceptions, like Radiohead, Tool, guys like Jack White, maybe Ben Folds or the Dave Matthews Band. Wilco, too, has evolved into something of a musician's band. But even some of my favorite bands (Foo Fighters included) are as much about image and attitude than musical prowess or expertise.

Some political commentators think we are so thirsty for heroes we are willing to sanctify candidates, to make them superstars and saviors, before they're ready or without vetting their experiences. Thus the meteoric rise of Obama and Palin. You could say the same thing about a lot of our rock stars.

| Timothy Finn, The Star

Comments

[Keith G. in P.V.]

From an Olde Pharrt who remembers Frank Zappa when he was alive, thank you. A very insightful column.

[smartman]

Couldn't agree more. Perfect reason to cancel American Idol.

[ClayPlatte]

Zappa always had the best musicians in his band. Reading music was a prerequisite. (There were exceptions; Adrian Belew for one). I also think the record producer bridged the gap between the DIY bands and the music theory in most cases.

I do remember having a tough time listening to those DIY bands because I was raised on Yes, Steely Dan, Zappa, Mahvishnu Orchestra, King Crimson, etc. The new wave bands sounded like a bunch of simpletons to me. My friends got hooked on the new wave bands very early on bands because they didn't have exposure to the progressive stuff. It was much easier for them to accept it. I was kind of envious at the time, becuase I felt like I was missing out.

[Gary Oldman]

This made me think of the scene in "Tommy Lee goes to College" where he was playing with the marching band. He was totally lost.

On the other hand, Zappa had some goofy lyrics, such as "St. Alphonsus pancake Breakfast, Where I stole the margarine" and "You watch where those huskies go, don't you eat that yellow snow."

Man. Do I miss Frank.

[Tim Finn]

Recently I watched the VH1 Classic documentary on the making of "Aja," (now 30 years old). What an accomplishment that was: a highly sophisticated pop/r&b/jazz album -- an album by and for musicians -- that put several songs onto the Top 40. I was a courier that summer in St. Louis, and "Deacon Blue" was all over the radio. Never again. Just to prove the point, read this bit of news from England, where the Spice Girls beat out Led Zep for best reunion tour of the year. Granted, they did a full tour, and Zep did one show. Still ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7623846.stm

[onthemark]

I think that anytime the Spice Girls beat out Led Zeppelin in anything, that has to be a sign of the coming apocalypse...

[John Altevogt]

I'm sorry, but you're getting old. Every generation has had its musicians and its duds. The same era that gave rise to the supergroups also nourished the bubblegum groups.

The major difference between that era was that the general public actually went and listened to groups like Cream and Gentle Giant and Emerson, Lake and Palmer. Although it wasn't because they understood what they were doing, it was because they spoke with an English accent.

Eventually it became hip to pretend you knew what they were doing and so some of the American bands benefited from the spillover from the English groups.

[Tim Finn]

I don't think anyone's saying there weren't posers back then: Look at the Monkees (didn't Hendrix open for them?) But where are the bands today who are both popular and accomplished as musicians? Look at the bands on the charts: Metallica. Nickelback. Slipknot. Coldplay. Staind. 3 Doors Down.

[bob]

"Look at the bands on the charts: Metallica. Nickelback. Slipknot. Coldplay. Staind. 3 Doors Down."

Ye gods. No wonder I don't listen to radio much anymore.

[mankvill]

Argh, why'd you hafta lump Tool in with Ben Folds?!

And I think some of the people could benefit from looking deeper than Rolling Stone magazine, Mix 93.3 and whatever is on VH1, (we all know MTV doesn't play music anymore) I think some people would be surprised. Why, take the German death metal band Necrophagist: They incorporate Beethoven into their guitar solos! They know what they're doing.

Click my name for my KC-Based heavy metal blog! :D

[Tim Finn]

I know there are bands and musicians out there doing wild and inventive stuff, but most of them are obscure or underground, not rock stars. (Or stuck in a jam band.)

[brent anderson]

Suitable analogy to politicians and our voting motivations, but I do give a bit more leeway to the people making the music I listen to.

Musicians, even moonlighters like myself, know how much work it takes to truly master an instrument, collaborate effectively with others and create art. As a one-time artist relations manager for a major instrument manufacturer, I dealt with more than my fair share of hacks with major label deals. Which made me appreciate the bands you mentioned, among many others, all the more.

There will always be lightweights who get famous, deserved or not. And there will be many more true savants (e.g. Joe Jackson, Andy Partridge and XTC, Jason Falkner, Paul Weller, etc.) who barely ever register on the mainstream radar, but remain revered by fellow musicians. So goes the market.

I would also add that there are many astounding musicians who just happen to play in bands that can be easily lumped into stereotypical categories like "punk," and therefore not get the artistic recognition they deserve (e.g. Muse, The Living End, Alkaline Trio).

[Tim Finn]

I had a talk with a producer awhile back -- a guy who is also a trained musician. He pretty much confirms that: Some bands include some really gifted musicians -- guys who are playing below their levels of competency. He also said a lot of them, including those with small, mid-size and large labels, are clueless, even about the most basic fundamentals. 6/8 time? What that? Thus he'll spend an hour showing the drummer where and how to hit the snare to get the sound they need.
And PS: Some of my favorite groups are/were bands like the Replacements or the Pixies, who just wanted to be competent enough to play their great songs. Neal Schon's father was a jazz saxophonist; Frank Black's dad owned a bar.

[Nivek9]

Interesting analogy. But this speaks more to the problem of society in general than to the music industry or politics in particular. If three chord head banging or simple ballad playing low talent bands didn't sell tunes and tickets they wouldn't be as popular as they are. Likewise with the politicians in question in their appeal to "the base".

There are still real musicians making headway into the mainstream along with real politicians. Like the Decemberists and Joe Biden. Talent and intelligence tend to go hand in hand for the most part.

[GB]

I agree with your point (and love this blog!) but I do quibble slightly with your Foo Fighter reference. It's true Foo Fighters are a lot about image and attitude, but Grohl is a real musician at the heart of the band. His first foo fighter album, which he played all the parts by himself was pretty impressive, not to mention his Probot metal record, Foo acoustic stuff, collaborations with Queens of the Stone Age, and others. BTW, have you heard Glen Campbell's version of Times Like These? It's a hoot.

[kmoon]

Man, Zappa was truly one of a kind. Brilliant. Funny thing though. Dweezil and his jaw-dropping group of true musicians brought their show (material written by Frank) to KC, we didn't even have a review of that show to read in the Star. Things that make you go Dynamo hmmmm.

[Tim Finn]

I guess I'll defend the Foos against my own self: They aren't really a symptom of what I'm talking about. When I saw them in July I could only think of the Who: fierce, huge, powerful. Yeah, Dave is creative and Dave is a showman and he has that "regular guy" appeal. Taylor H. is a beast on the drums. But, I don't think they fall into the category of commercial bands that comprised a bunch of studio or session-ready musicians. And they don't need to be. That's all.

And I'm not talking as much about the music as I am the quality and integrity of the performance. Given the choice between seeing the Pixies or Foos or Journey, there's no hesitation or debate. What I heard on Monday, though, were trained pros doing it professionally. Some of Schon's leads were a little mind-blowing -- lyrical; not riffs, but narratives; a song within the song. On that level, the difference between them and other bands I've seen over the past year or two is significant, like the difference between plywood and mahogany. Or rosewood.

[GB]

Fair enough, Tim. I'm catching them next week in a small venue (Hard Rock in LV) and am very much looking forward to it.

[Tim Finn]

RE dweezil: I interviewed him and did a story before that first Ameristar show. To be frank (sorry for the pun), I couldn't find someone confident enough in their Zappa knowledge to review the show, myself included. I looked at it like reviewing some prog-jazz-rock show. His is a tough crowd -- fanatic like Deadheads (and rightfully so).

[NEW]

Revisionist history always fascinates me, Tim. While we seem to think that good musicianship was much better represented in the mainstream than it is today, a review of what made up the charts in the 1960s and 1970s shows that there really wasn't much of a difference. Yes, Wheels of Fire and Electric Ladyland were two of the top LPs of 1968. But so was Sugar, Sugar by the Archies, 1910 Fruit Gum Company, and the Monkees. The 70s were no different; The mundane disco and Partridge Family type releases that dominated the charts were only occassionally interspersed with a credible Pink Floyd, Zeppelin or Steely Dan release. And for as incredible as Zappa was, he never charted well. I would think many of the bands out there now who are comprised of stellar musicians (Derek Trucks Band, WSP, Hiatt, Lucinda Williams (Doug Pettibone)), just to name a few sell as many records as the Mothers of Invention. They just don't chart as well because a large percetnage of their sales are at live shows.

[Tim Finn]

Yep. And I mentioned the Monkees in a post above and mentioned that Hendrix opened for them. The premise here isn't that there aren't any good musicians out there today; there are. Or that there weren't any bubble-gum acts back then. There were.

The premise is that not many of the musically accomplished bands are popular, commercially successful bands, like they were in Journey or Steely Dan.

I talk about Journey at the risk of sounding like a fanatic, but their original drummer was Aynsley Dunbar, who came in second to Mitch Mitchell.

Bringing up Zappa might be misleading, though I remember hearing him on the radio in the early '70s. Yes, he thrived in the periphery or the underground.

But check out the bands who chart these days and I'm not seeing too many with bonafide virtuosos in them.

Funny you should mention Hiatt. I saw him this summer. His backup band was quite generic. Likewise, the band Melissa Etheridge had with her: serviceable.

[Nivek9]

I think the Monkees fall into a bit of a gray area with everyone here sort of dismissing them. But in reality there were some bonafides in the band. Michael Nesmith was an accomplished singer songwriter and had some solo success after he left the band and Peter Tork was a classically trained multi-instrumentalist. Though they were a TV network's commercial project it doesn't necessarily detract from the inherent talent in the band in my opinion. For all of the Zappa fans (myself definitely among them) on this thread you should realize that Zappa had a solid connection to the Monkees by appearing in an episode of the TV show and in the movie Head. I also would hazard a guess that many of the apparent hacks on American Idol have had some formal training as well. And I am no fan of American Idol.

For the person that mentioned Doug Pettibone, have you checked out his work with a singer songwriter from Nashville named Kevin Montgomery. Good stuff. And Kevin Montgomery will be at Knuckleheads with some new material on October 7th. I highly recommend it if you like the alt-country tinged singer songwriter stuff.

[GB]

Zappa did a promotion for Joe's Garage with KY-102 in the late 70s where he showed up and played in somebdy's garage. The winner of the contest was somebody that lived around Bannister and James Reed Rd. in South Kansas City. I remember it because it was within walking distance of my house at the time and I wandered over there. It was pretty chaotic. There was a major traffic jam and there were cars parked in the ditch all the way up and down Bannister, and people climbing in neighbor's trees to try and get a look in this guy's garage where Zappa was playing. A lot of the neighbors didn't know what the hell was going on and were totally freaked out by the invasion of freaks.

[Penny]

Very intelligent thread. I have to say that I love equally Tool and Ben Folds.

Hey Tim, BeNon is playing at the Plaza Art Fair tomorrow at 6:00pm.

[H]

This is one strange post Tim. I can't remember ever reading about Journey and Zappa in the same context. Maybe it's just me, but Zappa seems to be at a whole different level. As far as new acts go, Muse is the band to watch. Let's hope the original Jane's Addiction puts out a new album and tour. They have what we all want: Major rock star status with real talent to back it up.

[S]

The idea that Journey represents some peak of integrity and musicianship is hilarious. It's corporate pap, lowest common denominator soulless schlock. Your rant would make more sense if you weren't defending such dreck. Save the high horse for musicians that are worth it.

[Zod]

I don't know if this applies, but it reminds me: The other night, I caught "The Last Waltz" and found myself thinking there's nobody on that film that could be a star today because they range from homely to downright ugly.

At the same time, would the Beatles have been so big if they weren't cute? If they had all looked like Ringo, would we have cared?

And, TF, you're setting the bar way too high for your elected leaders. If politicians were smarter, they'd stay the hell out of politics.

[Tim Finn]

I'll repeat for the third time: I'm not talking about product -- the music. I'm talking about the guys who play it. Schon and Cain are pros. They could play with just about anyone. Instead of something more abstract or avant-garde or twistedly adventurous, they chose Journey, a commecial juggernaut. That doesn't change what they are: skilled musicians.

[S]

Tim, you used the word integrity. If they're "skilled musicians" and they choose to play cr@p, that's a strange definition of integrity.

[NEW]

Some final words on Journey and how revisionist history is once again at work making a band out to be so much more than what they actully were. The original incarnation showed much promise. Ex Santana guitarist Neal Schon, ex Mayall and Mothers drummer Ansley Dunbar, no schlocky Steve Perry vocals, etc. But then the band became corporatized in the late 1970s and the label wanted to revamp their image. Perry was brought in and it was deemed that Dunbar did not have "the look" so he was out. Yeah, real integrity, huh?

[Tim Finn]

No revising done here. Journey went commercial. True. Does that mean Schon became an inferior guitarist?
The "integrity" I was talking about was not in regard to their music or their songs, but to their sound -- the way Schon and the other guys performed -- and to their musical backgrounds. Jonathan Cain showed that his skills on the piano are far more sophisticated than what he's required to do in Journey.

And the whole premise of this thread, by the way, was based on musicians in bands that became popular, like Journey or Steely Dan or the Doobie Brothers. Look at the guys who backed up Bowie: Carlos Alomar, Bobby Keys, Mick Ronson, David Sanborn, Andy Newmark ... Or guys who played with Jacksone Browne and Warren Zevon. Or Springsteen. Where are those kinds of bands or session guys these days among popular/Top 40 bands?

Journey became the brunt of jokes and insults and for legitimate reasons. Their resurgance has more to do with nostalgia than anything. But what gets lost in between is the fact that, like a lot of their contemporaries, the guys playing the songs are a lot more evolved as musicians than most guys in contemporary bands. I listed the bands who are on the charts today: 3 Doors Down, Slipknot, Coldplay, Nickelback, Staind, Disturbed, Kid Rock. I could be wrong, but I don't thint anybody in any of those bands could have played with Santana before they turned 20.

[Alison]

I cannot believe Coldplay is coming to KC!! Amazing--not to Chicago or St Louis, or New York City (just New Jersey)!! They are on a world wide tour--we are so lucky!

[indie snob]

i don't get why technical musical prowess or expertise is relevant. there are technical geniuses who make awful music (the malmsteen approach) and techinical novices who make amazing music.

i think the larger point here is the decline of rock music in popular culture. hip hop long ago replaced rock as the sexy/dangerous sound of young popular culture. most popular rock these days is complete paint-by-numbers garbage - either in the sensitive-guy Coldplay vein or the even worse faux-heroic Creed/Nickelback style.

the technically-talented "rock stars" these days do not play rock music. they are studio wizards like Pharrell, Timbaland, Missy, etc. who change pop music every time they make a beat.

[Tim Finn]

You just opened a whole other Pandora's can of worms there my friend.

[kmoon]

to indie snob:
You mean every time they STEAL a beat, or accidentally push a wrong button and get a different "beat".
Hip hop should not even be mentioned in a serious music discussion like this.

[indie snob]

sorry kmoon, anyone who participates in a "serious" music discussion in 2008 should have a more nuanced opinion of the technique of sampling (a complex musical technique that has been refined over at least 35 years) than you are demonstrating. missy "steals" from artists she samples about as much as Clapton or Page "steal" from the blues guitarists they copy - which is to say, they make it their own.

it is predictable, though depressing, that so many so-called music fans define "talent" or "prowess" so narrowly that only classically-trained people who play white approximations of black music qualify. is it any shock that the youth of today reject such wankery?

i will take the "theft" of missy or DJ Shadow over the microwaved riffs and masturbatory arpeggios of Dream Theater or Malmsteen any day.

[kmoon]

ok, sorry, Indie snob. I guess since I've been a performing musician for about 35 years I have trouble realizing how photocopying part of a previous artist's creation is such a "complex musical technique". Different strokes for different folks, man!

[VinceM]

I think I'll have to go with indie snob on this one. Technicial proficiency often comes at the detriment of other things ... like melody. A song in 34/13 time might be skillful but it's likely unlistenable as well.

[Stephen Darjeeling]

Well I stumbled onto this thread after I watched the "squealing rabbit" vid. There was Johnny down in the groove while Frankie milked notes out of the guitar like venom from a rattlesnake. Avant guard music is appealing in its attempt to reinvent. Take Drakkar Sauna from Lawrence for instance. Two ostensibly "challenged" musicians do put together a new mix of notes and lyrics to create an art form. Like Yoko, who was no musician, or was she? Just the other night I saw a musician from the UMKC conservatory play on a 4 x 4 x 8 foot piece of treated lumber. A fence post mind you. A phd candidate in percussion. So sampling falls in with everything else that music is and that music does. I love the musicians who play the shapes but I can spot them, too. It's the beauty of hearing the music come to you in a meaningful experience, like the one I had Saturday night, dancing to Play That Funky Music White Boy, a song that I truly hated when it first came out. But the time and the place were right. You get it?

[Smart Alex]

I only want to add that, in all seriousness, Mickey Dolenz was a fantastic singer. So even several of the Monkees actually had talent, even if their product seemed disposable.

[Tim Finn]

And Michael Nesmith was/is a sensational songwriter.

[John]

Look I don't disagree with the premise but a lot of those 70s era rock stars couldn't read music either ... there is something bigger here that is missing. That is that genuine musicians whether academically trained or self taught are playing for other reasons than stardom.

Today’s music is awash in clichés and formulas and is not necessarily about music but money and fame. Within the main stream music community originality and musicianship isn't necessarily an important ingredient for music.

[Mike]

Interesting thread indeed. Discussion of Zappa's showing up to play 15 or so minutes with a garage band reminded me of a couple of old KC moments.

It was 1980, my old friend Andy Gershon and I (both of us 16 at the time) waited around to meet Zappa and the band after their gig at Municipal. We wound up chatting with Warren Cuccurullo and Vinnie Colaiuta for a good while - Cuccurullo talked Andy into giving him his fedora. Where this story gets downright stupid is that I distinctly recall I couldn't stop laughing every time someone mentioned Cuccurullo & Calaiuta's last names because in my head I kept hearing the sneering voice saying "Warren Cuccurullo - kinda young, kinda wow" from "Catholic Girls". I think anyone old enough to connect the dots between my working at Capers, my being 16, it being 1980 and after a concert can likely fill in why else I may have been in really good humor.

The other story is that in their heyday, Journey was playing two nights at Kemper and their then-drummer Steve Smith had stopped in Capers Corner. Smith spent hours in the jazz section with our resident expert, the late great Ed Harvey. Finally, Smith told Ed that he needed to go to sound-check but would Ed (already in his late 60's or so) like to come down and they could hang out some more. Ed replied "I didn't even know you were in a band - who are you with". Smith said Journey and Ed responded "Oh Jesus Christ, that singer of yours sounds like someone neutered a cat - even worse than Neil Young (whose singing Ed loathed)". Smith good-naturedly offered "well we sell a lot of records" and Ed answered "well, not on my account". They laughed, Smith hugged Ed and told him how much he enjoyed his company and wished him and all of us the very best. I never liked Journey but that Steve Smith made quite an impression on me as an immensely gentlemanly guy. And for those of you who never knew Ed, don't judge him ... I can't do justice to what a fine, fine man he was and how he (alone) could have dispensed with that subject in such an entertaining way for everyone, including Smith.

Those were the days, folks.

Mike Webber

[Sin City Disciple]

As education budgets shrink, music and other arts disappear. "The School of Rock" is a Disney movie, and not a reality. So if a kid were to show an interest in an instrument, that's what they study. Sure, if they demonstrate legitimate talent, then someone might take an interest in broadening their appreciation.

Additionally to proliferation of pop music, has put a bullet in a lot of musicianship. The image and marketability of a performer far outweigh their actual talent. With the exception of Madonna, I can't really think of a pop star that has been able to remain somewhat relevant longer than the shelf life of a gallon of milk.

However, I'm convinced that the more music (and entertainment as a whole) is dumbed down, there will still be a strong scene of intelligent and amazing music. Your just going to have to look for it.

[kmoon]

"dumb all over, and a little ugly on the side" FZ