Dear St. Louis: Cheese with your whine?

From the St. Louis Post-Dispatch:

This year was a no-play for Coldplay in St. Louis as the rockers headed for Kansas City when they came to perform in the Show-Me State.

Tina Turner, who got her start here, also took her private dances to Kansas City.

And though St. Louis is a haven for classic rock, Bon Jovi rocked out in Kansas City not once this year, but twice.

All of this activity has some music lovers in St. Louis wondering whether Kansas City is overshadowing St. Louis as a concert town.

The local music scene is used to taking a back seat to the sports teams. The Cardinals, Rams and Blues are typically are talked about more than upcoming shows.

But St. Louis, once the go-to place in Missouri for big concerts, is competing more with Kansas City, which has been attracting attention since the Sprint Center's opening concert with Elton John a year ago.

Brenda Tinnen, general manager for Sprint Center, says "it's not specifically a Kansas City vs. St. Louis thing. That's not the way I look at it. But we are trying to get all the big shows." 

Sprint Center outpaced the comparable Scottrade Center in ticket sales for the first nine months of this year, according to Pollstar. Sprint Center ranked at No. 31, with 207,203 tickets sold; Scottrade Center was No. 34, with 187,791 
tickets sold.

Scottrade Center representatives declined to be interviewed for this story.

Tim Finn, pop music critic for the Kansas City Star, says that with the exception of Madonna, almost everyone touring arenas played Sprint Center in the past year. 

That, coupled with multiple bookings from "American Idols Live," Garth Brooks, Bon Jovi and Tina Turner, made a hot spot of the venue, which has the latest amenities such as generous loading docks and the ability to hang more equipment overhead.

"It was designed to accommodate those big tour concerts, get them in and out quickly," Tinnen says

But Steve Litman of Steve Litman Productions, the executive director of Fox Concerts, says Sprint Center is enjoying its honeymoon phrase.

"There's a tendency in this industry for acts to go to new venues," he says. "But after it's not the new place anymore, people will go because of the events themselves, not because it's the new place." 

There are a number of reasons why shows might not play in St. Louis, says Dave Gerardi, Midwest marketing manager for concert producer Live Nation, which books shows at venues including Verizon Wireless Amphitheater and Scottrade Center.

"It can be the routing, the availability of different nights, the kind of facilities they want to play, you just never know," he says." 

Take the case of Tina Turner. The singer needed to kick off her tour in a city with a large arena where she'd be able to rehearse for at least two weeks, says Joe Litvag, senior vice president for concert producer AEG Live, which owns the $276 million Sprint Center.

"I don't know if that would ever happen at Scottrade, because of the sports teams," Litvag says. "There aren't giant windows of time."

Sprint Center doesn't house any sports franchises, which opens up more dates. The availability of Scottrade Center also was the reason Janet Jackson's Rock Witchu tour went to Kansas City last month: A hockey game stood in the way at Scottrade. 

As for Coldplay, "just because they haven't played yet doesn't mean St. Louis will be skipped over," Gerardi says. "When the Police toured, they skipped a bunch of markets at first, though St. Louis got a date early on. Then they came back almost a year later and played a lot of the markets (skipped before)."

St. Louis did have many big-name concerts this year, Gerardi points out. Shows that played St. Louis but not Kansas City included Radiohead, Jimmy Buffett, Dave Matthews Band, Toby Keith, John Mayer and Kenny Chesney.

Also noteworthy is the ranking of St. Louis venues on Pollstar's annual lists:

— The Pageant ranks fourth in top club venues in the world. 

— The Fox Theatre is No. 11 among the top 100 theater venues in the world. 

— Verizon Wireless Amphitheater is No. 9 on the list of worldwide amphitheaters. Kansas City's Starlight Theatre was No. 62, and Capitol Federal Park at Sandstone in Bonner Springs, Kan., was No. 67.

St. Louis' newest big venue is the midlevel Chaifetz Arena at St. Louis University. The venue so far has hosted Lil' Wayne, Barry Manilow, Stevie Nicks, Chingy and Ricky Smiley. Bookings have been slow since its spring opening but are starting to pick up — Carrie Underwood will play there Dec. 5.

The key to attracting big acts is ticket sales. 

"One of the hottest tours now is AC/DC," Fox Production's Litman says of the veteran hard-rock band, which is coming to Scottrade Center on Jan. 13. 

"(Almost) every date is sold out, but St. Louis is lagging. That's why we don't always have the big shows. Bookers want to see evidence that (the city) will be supportive."

kjohnson@post-dispatch.com | 314-340-8191

Comments

[mankvill]

I say we give them the "big name" concerts in exchange for all the metal shows St. Louis gets. :D

[what up]

those st louie peoples are funny, hehehehe ..
great stuff Tim, keep it comin....

hehehe.. whine and cheez;)

[OZNOG]

They got Radiohead didn't they?

[smartman]

Funny...KC still has arch-envy. St. Louis has more people, more money, more jobs, more culture, WAY BETTER Italian food... more everything. KC is what we is and it ain't a bad thing. Accept it. Our competition is no longer Chicago, St. Louis or Dallas...it's Des Moines and Omaha. That's what happen when you elect idiots to run and manage the city. Let the self-loathing begin.

[Tim Finn]

Their football team is catching up to ours in suckiness, too. But I'll take our beer (Blvd.) over theirs any day.

P.S. FYI: I didn't post this link, but it's worth reading for some perspective on how the Sprint Center/AEG have improved the live music scene here, for now anyway.

[Elliot]

To be completely honest, until Radiohead plays in KC, it seems like St. Louis has nothing to whine about.

Though, certainly, that won't stop them.

[sleepy]

I read this article on stltoday.com on Saturday - and voted for KC in the poll on Friday. There is no Arch envy here...I've been to the Fox, I've been to the Pageant and I've been to Kiel/Savvis/Scottrade. I'll take the Uptown, Midland, and Sprint Center any and every day.

2008 has been my personal best year of concerts out of 25+ years of concert-going - performers I've always wanted to see like Randy Newman and Todd Rundgren; Performers I will ALWAYS go see like Bruce Springsteen and They Might Be Giants; performers I had no idea they'd be THAT GOOD live like James McMurtry, the Raconteurs, Ben Folds and Coldplay. But I would love to see the likes of Radiohead join the party too.

I like the fact there are 3 other mid-sized cities within a 3-4 hour drive to catch any of the shows that don't make it here...It beats getting all the way to Chicago or Denver.

[mescalaro]

I couldn't agree more about the beer comment. I'll take Nutcracker & Bob's 47 over Barry Manilow & Carrie Underwood. The only reason to drive to St. Louis last year was for Tom Waits (The Fox is a beautiful theatre, though). We've got a good thing here KC, especially with the smaller & midsize venues like Crossroads/Grinders, Recordbar, Knuckleheads, Cyp Ave @ Folly etc..

[Ellen K.]

@ Tim Finn, re beer: have you tried Schaffly? (As in, was that a reference to a certain other St. Louis brewery, or a more general reference?)

[too bad]

the sad thing is that STL has a much more hoppin' and community-supported jazz scene, despite KC's historical significance and international reputation for jazz.

[pops]

Schlafly's Hefeweizen leaves Boulevard's Unfiltered Wheat in the dust. They don't have an American Pale to compare with Boulevard Pale, but they brew three times the varities that Boulevard does. We're better off for having both excellent breweries in MO, and their products in KC.
That said, it's kinda hard to get worked up over which town is getting better arena shows - a little like debating whether Budweiser is better than Miller. They both cost too much, taste bland at best and are lowest common denominators parading as products. StL has a better scene for bands that you can actually see (as opposed to arena rock), but KC-Lawrence isn't too far behind. We get some TX acts up I-35 that don't play Stl., but they get a few more eastern acts that can't justify playing Record Bar or the Jackpot to 20 people
9maybe) on a Tuesday night.

[MikeA]

Schlafly does make a pale ale and is not as good as Boulevard's. It's a little too sweet. Had lunch at the Schlafly brewery last week. Not good. Also checked JamBase.com to see if there were any good shows in St. Lou and there was nothing!

[JCarter]

I saw the Police at Scottrade and I heard that St. Louis was the only city in the world not to sell the show out! (at least on the first leg of it). Now I didn't catch too many references to ticket sales in this article but that could be one of the biggest reasons why the shows are going to KC instead. Does anyone know if the Police sold out the Sprint Center?
I think the answer is that we are just way more hardcore dedicated music fans!!! Haha just kidding, thats just a little bit of a leap, but who knows?

[Mike]

Reminds me of Hearne Christopher's constant whining about Omaha getting shows instead of Kansas City.

[what up]

My favorite "Stlouie whine" (and there are many .. many .. many) of all time, was the years, and years, of red faces and tighten lips as they grimmmaced squawlked "I dont care about that bad call in the 85 World Series"..LOL:)

btw
since Bud is now a commie beer, I switched to Blvd Unflitered Whaet..and I must say,
I am quite delighted..

ANOTHER great point from Tim Finn.
awesome Tim, just awesome:)

[Smart Alex]

I echo the Radiohead comments, but wanted to add that I don't consider Kansas City much in contention with St. Louis until we get either an anchor tennant in Sprint Center or a ball field downtown--I'm not holding my breath.

[NEW]

"since Bud is now a commie beer, I switched to Blvd Unflitered Whaet.."

Wow, Belgium is now a communist counrty? I guess they forgot to tell the rest of the world.

[KevRocket]

I used to get SO sick and tired of Hearne Christopher's attempts to start some kind of rivalry between KC and Omaha. I suppose those days are over (unless Weekly World News is hiring). My wife and I are lifetime KC residents and we've made a couple of trips over the years to see shows at the Quest Center in Omaha. Specifically Paul McCartney and U2. Quest Center is another big arena about like all the others. However the greatest thing about the Quest Center is all of the indoor space they created beyond the actual arena. You can actually wait INSIDE before they start taking tickets. Somebody had the bright idea to create this space to allow for patrons to wait inside before the show starts. And we all know how diverse the weather can be in either Omaha or KC. Now I don't mind a little rain however snow etc is not much fun.

However I'm not much of a fan of these giant venues. We've only been to one show at the Sprint Center, and it was okay. Having the bars and restaurants right across the street is a big plus for KC.

[what up]

inbev is a commie company, or dont you understand?
dont you get it?...huh?
try to keep up.

[NEW]

Not to get off topic but I would be most interested in hearing What Ups explanation on how Inbev is a commie company.

[lucas]

i heard budweiser was backing stem cell research, gay rights, and opened an abortion clinic for bad decisions made after ingesting too much of their product....

For those of you bean counters: STL has a functioning light rail, which will ultimately be KC's achilles heel. Concerts, food, sports aside, when the final tally is completed I think this will put STL ahead and KC will be left w/ a pile of TIF receipts and empty parking garages.

[Casady]

Your sarcasm is noted Lucas. What Ups "commie company" comment was pretty silly too. I'll assume he was also being sarcastic. Anyone who knows anything about InBev will know they are just another multinational beverage company who took advantage of a weak dollar. They are not state owned (which I believe is a prerequisite to be a commie company) nor are they based in a former or current communist nation.

Back to the thread, a couple of friends of mine roadie regularly at Sprint Center and both have mentioned that the facility and the area in general is getting quite a bit of buzz among touring artists. Does that jive with anything you have heard, Tim?

[smartman]

I don't recall ANYONE at the Star "whining" about what shows we get or don't get...unless pointing out the facts has somehow become "whining". We get what we get and what we don't get is only 4 hours, or less, away by car. There's no shortage of great music in KC in venues of all sizes. Certainly, the downtown venues are in a honeymoon phase with artists and fans. 2008 has been a great year for live entertainment in KC. Let's hope that 2009 offers more of the same.

[dontneedanything]

i live in st louis now after living in kc my whole life and i hate to say that the biggest difference is the crowds - stl crouws are the chattiest rudest crowds ive ever dealt with. ive been to a few of the venues and they dont match up as well - hell even sandstone matches up better to the big outdoor venue here. i cant blame bands for skipping over stl...but i wish they didnt.

[what up]

..if you have to ask...
...you can not afford it.

The bottom line is...
stlouie needs therapy to work out its personal problems. The issues run deep. Some of these have shown up in its split personality, East St.louis

[Tony Cheray]

Hmmm with a almost 300 miles between them I would hardly think that there would be compitition.
I live in Lawrence Kansas and have attanded alot of concerts in the KC metro area. And for a change of scene I have been to a few shows in St Louis. I will admit the fox theater in St Louis is a 11 on a 10 scale. I will have to give kansas city its due as well the Sprint center is a 11 as well. I will continue to sing the praises of both STL and Kansas City. ROCK ON DUDES ROCK ON

[Gene Schwarz]

You should get out a little more around Kansas City, smartman. This city has plenty of culture and sophistication, along with a booming arts scene. As for money, suburban Johnson County is one of the top fifty wealthiest counties in the nation, and I believe Lee's Summit and maybe Parkville made the list of most desirable places to live, based on income, schools, neighborhoods, etc. Kansas City's just more hip, period.