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« Jimmy Page, the Edge and Jack White star in 'It Might Get Loud.' | Main | On sale this weekend »

July 15, 2009

Comments

NEW

Geez....glad I opted for Warren at Grinders.

david

yeesh, I thought prog-rock was pretentious...

Nivek9

So, let me get this straight. You didn't like the show?

I was wondering how Oliver Wakeman would fair. Apparently not well. The days of Yes at Allen Field House in support of Relayer are long gone. Now that was a show.....

Pat

It's really a shame that the members of both of these groups don't retire. They were once great, but unfortunately, those days are over.

Bubba

Well, well! Glad to see that Rockville does have a review of the YES w / ASIA concert. Definitely one of the top (maybe 5) shows of 2009.

Pat, sorry you feel that way. LISTEN: if YES couldn't cut it playing 'live' anymore - they WOULD retire. STEVE HOWE and CHRIS SQUIRE were great! Plus, OLIVER WAKEMEN was fine!

Thereviewer Sucks

jesus christ dude. spare us your hipster geekspeak, your personal problems and opinions that have nothing to do with this review and write in english.

we've all listened to these bands, especially yes for more than a few years and here you're throwing out bad/stupid references like hand
grenades. typical example of your "twit"-ness is the beatles-harold wilson crap. who gives a crap that you know that. i know it too. BFD.

you've made yourself the prime focus of your reviews. i've seen your other stuff.

what you are telling me by what you wrote about the show is...

1. you don't like asia or yes.
2. you think the old guys are done and have been done for quite awhile
3. you think every member in both bands is pretentious.
3. you want everyone to know that you have rock knowledge and that it goes back at least as far as the beatles. i'm surprised you didn't toss out a "back to the future"-"chuck berry" reference.
4. you want everyone to bask in glow of your witty patois of old music references.
5. you repeatedly slam on individual members and try to let everyone know that you have a big well of knowledge of music theory and other assorted and related things.

so what was the point of this review. oh, yea... you were supposed to tell us how the show was. i musta missed it.

all i could see was YOU and your narcissism.

you suck as a reviewer.

it's not me, it's you

M.S. Judge

Attention please: the guy commenting above will be ghostwriting all my work from now on. We're both intensely excited about this fruitful new partnership.

Love,
Rondo Hatton

neighbor

Judge is a reviewer. He reviewed. If you don't agree with him, fine, but at least refute his arguments. All I see in the long post above from the hater is personal attacks from someone who seems angry that they spent $ on a show that a reviewer thought was crap. I'm sure there are sites where you can have your purchase, and experience, validated.

MetalHEAD

Please remember folks that this review was brought to us by the same crew that has now declared Frank Zappa to be 'one of the most important musical influences of the last half-century' or whatever nonsense that was....

Points to consider:

1. I guess all performers once they reach a certain age should no longer be able to earn a living as a musician....BB King, Miles Davis and Bob Dylan should have hung it up once they reached 40.....shame on them for continuing to earn a living playing music.

2. Fish, along with the Ox, are acknowledged by most to be two of the finest bass players in any form of rock/jazz music since Bo, Jerry & Elvis come along....& yes, I considered Jaco, Marcus, Geddy and countless others.

3. In my humble opinion, the review was quite sad and displayed a significant degree of narrow-mindedness and spite reserved normally for the calibre of media the Star has become....huh, I guessed that shoe fits.

I wish I had been able to attend. Squire, Howe and crew have always been exceptional musicians and will always deserve the music community's respect.

JJ

Wow. That review was even more over the top than the Zappa review. Maybe next time the review will come with footnotes, index and bibliography. I don't want to miss any of the references. Cool. Go for it Judge!

Jeff

I didn't see the show. and not a big fan of either band. But that was a badly written review. Quit trying to sound like Dennis Miller. Judge calling anything pretentious = pot calling kettle black. five minutes of my life I will never get back. I'll start looking at the by line before I read.

Nivek9

Everyone's a critic.....

I heavily criticized the review of the Robin Trower show a while back but I am now seeing the error of my ways. Voice your own opinion without attacking people. That seems a better line to follow. Have you ever read reviews by Dave Marsh in Rolling Stone and elsewhere? It takes all kinds. Next time you see a review of a show you enjoyed that you don't like write your own and post it for comparison and contrast. If it's the big words and highfalutin language being used, well, I've got nothing to offer. Go take a college comp class or something. Your lack of lexicon is no reason to attack the guy who actually has a working vocabulary. I personally find it refreshing to get more than a dumbed down sound bite aimed at mass consumption by the lowest common denominator.

Keef

Great, that's all we need, a David Foster Wallace wannabe giving us his "Infinite Jest" of a concert review. A little advice though, when the late, great Lester Bangs wrote his gonzo music reviews back in the wonderful days of CREEM Magazine, at least he was funny, and oddly, when he said something spiteful, it was usually justified. This review just seems MEAN, for no apparent reason.

Sure, there are those who have a strong disdain for Prog-Rock. Whatever. I always dug Rock Music from all over the spectrum, from Devo to Danzig, King Crimson to King Diamond, Red House Painters to the Red Hot Chilli Peppers, etc. YES is a band full of uber-talented musicians and some of us appreciate that as much as four guys like The Ramones who can bash out three chords in a glorious racket. To each his own, I guess........

Jeff

It borders on unreadable. I am an attorney. I read all kinds of stuff all the time. It takes work for me to glean through the self serving crap to find out what he actually thinks of the show. Shouldn't have to go to college to read a review of a rock concert.

Jeff

Now I have to Google David Foster Wallace

JJ

Nivek9 Hey, don't take things so seriously. I just prefer reviews that tell me more about the show than what the reviewer knows. It's just a matter of style. I would say M Judge has taken this particular pretentious style of reviewing to the extreme and therefore has invited much comment.

M.S. Judge

Let me clear up one thing: I think the Yes of the '71-'74 era (let's say from "Fragile" to "Relayer") was/is is a phenomenal group. The Yes of 2009 is a tired, corny, self-parodic version of that band.

JFP

The show couldn't have possibly been as badly performed as this review was poorly written.

tick picker

This one has a lower Google Quotient than the Zappa review, and a higher percentage of actually talking about the performances. The ensuing debate makes both a treasure. Next I’d like to see what Judge would do with something a little more out of his element. Since Britney has already been through KC, I vote for next week’s Ratt/Extreme show at Crossroads.

NEW

Wow, you guys are pretty harsh(and apparently not very well read). Read any esteemed rock writer (Dave Marsh, Robert Christgau, Robert Palmer, Cameron Crowe, Ben Fong-Torres, etc) and it's pretty obvious where Mr. Judges' influences lie. They all incorporate a certain level of pretentiousness into their work. We are all just so used to reading Tim Finn and Bill Browlee, who, to their credit, write in a manner that appeals to the KC rock audience, that any review written in a style similar to most other music writers appears over the top. Besides, I thought it was pretty funny.

6thDayer

I used to be VERY anti-cloning, but maybe this is a good case for it.
Maybe limited cloning.... in this case... lets clone Timm Finn, so at least we can have professional reviews of concerts.

onthemark

Hear hear, I am all for cloning Tim so that he can attend multiple events and report on them in a manner that I can read AND understand. Nothing against Mr. Judge, except for a certain inclination towards pseudo-intellectual loquacious verbosity combined with a flair for garrulous, voluble, glibness. Now, since a synonym for 'critic' is 'judge', I guess he comes by it naturally.
Personally, I prefer that the comments about the review would be about the performance rather than the reviewer, but that's just me...

Zod

The turgidity of the review perfectly suited the pretentiousness of Yes.

If only we could get Marillion to come to town...

Tom

Did you really expect the transcendent experience of ‘70s Yes concert?
Did you really think anyone could aptly replace Jon Anderson and Rick Wakeman?
Perhaps my tastes aren’t as discriminating as those of Mr. Judge, and I am absolutely a stronger Yes fan than he.
So, knowing that an Asia set would be something of an endurance test (their debut album was perhaps the biggest disappointment in rock history), I plunked down the $150 for a second-row seat to watch Mssrs. Howe and Squire play their instruments.
And they did. Enthusiastically. Mr. Howe for two sets.
I don’t think it possible to sleepwalk through that kind of virtuosity, even if you have done it a million times. There were nuanced pieces, subtle tinkerings and the full-blown treatments of “Tempest Fugit” and “Machine Messiah” were genuine surprises for those who hadn’t read reviews of recent shows.
Perhaps the biggest disconnect for me was the juxtaposition of the fire witch of “The Court of the Crimson King” next to the soft-pop of an acoustic version of Asia’s “Don’t Cry.” And, while John Wetton didn’t even sing the original, it was a pleasure to hear live and his vocals were strong throughout their set.

M.S. Judge

@Tom: I do wish that I'd mentioned Asia's version of "The Court of the Crimson King" -- a surprising highlight in an otherwise flaccid (errr) set -- and yeah, Wetton was in quite surprisingly good form.

As far as Howe, I agree: his talent is undiminished, and I've never heard him play more fluidly (never caught Yes before, but I've heard quite a few live bootlegs). Squire, on the other hand, I still maintain was more or less in automaton mode: those basslines were revolutionary and paradigm-shattering when he debuted them, but I think a quick check of "Yessongs" or the QPR '75 show (wonderful, if you haven't heard it--I think it's on Youtube in its entirety) will confirm that he's doing, note-for-note, exactly the same stuff.

And @Nivek9, that "Relayer" tour really was a full-blown hellfire bastard, wasn't it? The aforementioned Queens' Park Rangers Stadium gig with Moraz is just a firestorm: Patrick's having trouble with his gear during a fair portion of it, and the boot-quality mix is pretty rough, but they whip through versions of "The Gates of Delirium" and "Ritual" that rival anyone, then or now, for ambition and monstrous energy.

revewer

Me like show. Show was good. Music was loud. Sound was good. Songs were good. Singing was good. Guitar good. Drums ok. Bass good. Not like old music. Still good though.

Me like show.

Show good.

M.S. Judge

Update: apparently they've removed a good deal of the QPR footage from Youtube (probably to make a rip-off DVD of the slightly cleaned-up bootleg, given Yes' history of fan-relations), but here's the first half of "Sound Chaser":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNNPcqKfi_Y&feature=related

Issues with mixing and drop-outs, obviously, but they're killing it, especially Steve.

Tom

What pissed me off was the Uptown/Ticketmaster $25 "VIP Experience" I bought. No description was available at pre-sale time, but I love the band so what the heck. Figured at the very least good parking would be worth it. Later learned that VIP Experience includes Premium Parking and early admission to the Uptown's over-priced bar, where they would serve CostCo-quality hors d'oeuvres. Unfortunately, my wife and I had dinner plans, and arriving at the venue one hour before showtime obviated ALL of the "VIP" benefits. Park and drink over-priced beers with the unwashed, non-VIP masses ...

IluvJoCo

hehehehehe...Thanks Tom, I love a good JoCo story!

MetalHEAD

And I qoute:

Squire, on the other hand, ....those (revolutionary and paradigm-shattering) basslines were....note-for-note, exactly the same stuff.

Damn....definitely fault him for that.

Look at me edit.......

M.S. Judge

"Squire, on the other hand, ....those (revolutionary and paradigm-shattering) basslines were....note-for-note, exactly the same stuff."

Okay, but "Love to Love You Baby" was once paradigm-shattering as well--the point is that stasis means death.

Gary

It's great to see so much debate over a show that isn't Springsteen, Coldplay, Garth Brooks or some other sacred cow. There could be more comments here than actual paid audience members for this show. Mr. Judge's review is a polar opposite of Jason Harper's review in The Pitch and I respect both of them for their opinions. This is like the Rashomon of concert reviewing here.

MikeJUDGMENTAL is more like it!

NEW says:

"Tim Finn and Bill Browlee, who, to their credit, write in a manner that appeals to the KC rock audience, that any review written in a style similar to most other music writers appears over the top."

Careful, NEWbie. That almost appears that you are looking down on the "KC rock audience." I think most of us can handle a bad review of a band we like, if the show has problems. Sometimes, the Ryan Adams' of the world need to be taken to task for their unprofessional antics. But when you seem predetermined to trash a band before you walk into the venue, which happened here, it's just lazy and shoddy journalism. If I wanted that, I would read the KC Star's 'lesser lights,' Mary Sanchez and Jenne Osterheldt, and their ridiculous and ill-informed editorials...................

NEW

Well, Mike Judgemental, I didn't mean to come across as looking down on the KC rock audience, especially since I am a part of it. However, as is evidenced by the comments here, it is apparent that there are a number of those in the KC rock audience who do not wish to read a review written in the fairly common pretentious rock critic type prose that prevails in all too many national music publications. I guess after decades of reading reviews in Rolling Stone, Village Voice, etc. I guess I'm just used to it and didn't think anything of it whereas you all are getting totally bent out of shape about it.

onthemark

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold your water there cowboy! Where do you (NEW) get off 'assuming' that because we don't like the writing/reviewing style of Mr. Judge that we must not be well read? The famous old critics for RS, Village Voice, Creem etc could be pretentious but they would be laughed at if they submitted a review like this one.

I for one am not getting bent out of shape, in fact I have made the exact same comment about Mr. Judge's reviews on previous posts. Nothing personal. Just that I prefer a review telling me about how the band looked, what they played, crowd responses, attendance figures, stuff like that. You know, like a report.

I have no problem with Mr. Judge waxing elliptical about whatever it is he is writing about, but bottom line is I read his review and I have no idea what he was talking about. And really, when you post a review, don't you want people to understand and enjoy it?
So, I guess you are right, I do not wish to read a review written in the fairly common pretentious rock critic type prose...

jm

I love Yes, and agree they should have retired before de-evolving into a Vegas act. I prefer to remember them in their prime, with Anderson & Wakeman.
Asia was a bad idea to begin with, and they sound so dated today.
What is it with these bands that can't quit, and ruin their past legacys?

Mike Judgmental

NEW says,

" I guess after decades of reading reviews in Rolling Stone, Village Voice, etc. I guess I'm just used to it and didn't think anything of it whereas you all are getting totally bent out of shape about it."

If you have been reading these periodicals for decades (I have too, and it's unfortunate what has become of Rolling Stone and the Village Voice in recent years) you couldn't be all that "New." I'm not either, but like you, I have been a reader/fan of Music Criticism since the 70's. I'm not "bent out of shape," but can obviously tell when they send an idiot to write a review of a concert who had no right even being at the show.

So, The KC Star made a mistake here. Not the first time, right? Objectivity was thrown right out the window, which again, is the laziest and lowest form of journalism. That's simply a fact. Mike Judge is bush-league and should have stuck to reviewing a show he might actually enjoy. I hear Demi Lovato in town next week, so this D-bag might be able to get that gig..........

JKinKC

I have to agree with the previous posters who commented "The show couldn't have possibly been as badly performed as this review was poorly written." and "I read his review and I have no idea what he was talking about."

Amen to that! Enough of the one-sentence paragraphs and bad metaphors! This wasn't so much of a review as it was a rant, and a poorly written one at that.

flameaway!!!

Anytime the reviewer becomes more important than what they are reviewing it's bad - and speaking of the Ryan Adams review, this thread reminds me of that, basically a bunch of regulars repeating the same thing over and over and over in a kind of self-validating group hate rant on someone they may or may not disagree with - kind of like sharks with blood in the water, thrashing around with no clear objective except to be a part of the activity at hand.

Tom

Best comment was the second, paraphrased: "And I thought prog-rock was pretentious!"

You ain't no Freud!

"basically a bunch of regulars repeating the same thing over and over and over in a kind of self-validating group hate rant on someone they may or may not disagree with - kind of like sharks with blood in the water, thrashing around with no clear objective except to be a part of the activity at hand."

..........hmmmm, wow! You are reading WAY too much into a simple music blog. It's a forum of opinion. I'll respect YOURS if you'll respect mine, so lighten up with the psychoanalysis , Flamer!

Stanley Fitzgibbons III, Rev.

And furthermore, I have evidence of my own divising, result, that is to say, of my own research, that Mr. Judge was personally responsible for the hiring of one Charles J. Guiteau to assassinate President James Garlfield -- WERE IT NOT ENOUGH that he insists on polluting our ears and minds with this noisome amorality!

Yours,
Stanley Fitzgibbons III, Rev.

Publius Jefferson

Dear sir,
With all respect, I submit humbly that the assassination of President J. Garfield (note your previous misspelling) was, as is well-known to anyone who has undertaken the necessary research, the result of an international cabal of financiers, Masons, Bavarian Illuminates, and the Priory of Scion, for whom Mr. Judge was but a means to an evil end.

Cordially,
Publius Jefferson, D.D., D.D.S

Stanley Fitzgibbons III, Rev.

Esteemed Dr. Jefferson,
Varlet! Knave! Whore of Babylon, upon whose forehead the iniquities of history are written! It has been established, time and time again, that Mr. Judge was in fact not only the pagan god, the slovenly cenotaph toward which these infamous groups doffed their respective occultish hats and opera-glasses, but that he was also their LEADER and thus the composer of the very plan that appeared to take advantage HIMSELF in its final execution! Truly, this was the masterstroke of a virtuoso of evil, and your mistake is understandable, if nonetheless unforgivable.

Love,
S. Fitzgibbons etc

Publius Jefferson

Most Sapient Rev. Fitzgibbons,

This aspect of Mr. Judge's insidiousness, his very base and dropsical contumely, was unknown to me, and I kneel in tribute before your lordly knowledge of such subjects as Iniquitous Plots, Plotted Iniquities, Plotting of Iniquities, Iniquities of Plotted Iniquities, Plotting of Iniquitous Plots, and so on, &c, in hope that my error might be forgiven.

I feel that we have perhaps lost sight, however, of the dread confusion of his Writing Style, which should be the proper Object of our Criticism. The very moral point of his rhetoric is obscured, and one can hardly decide how to spend one's hard-earned Ducats! It is as if he writes for Men of the Future -- and to this I say, Oh, eminent sir, I am a man of the Nineteeth Century, and proud to be one!

Desperately,
Publius etc etc

Stanley Fitzgibbons III, Rev

Most valued Dr. Jefferson,

To this I can say but Amen, and may the Lord forgive him.

In sexual fervor unquench'd,
Revvy Rev Rev etc

He thinks he's clever..........

Yawn..........

recovering drummer

The reviewer's comment about Carl Palmer's stick twirling is well taken. It reminds me of Buddy Rich's comment on the subject: "That's really nice, but it don't record very well."

Dave Whitaker

Yikes! I'm startled at how brutal the comments are about Judge's review. I wrote a review with a similar tone on my own blog. I had responses that disagreed with my opinion, but they did a wonderful job of explaining what they liked about the show without devolving into personal attacks on me or my writing style. Critique the review all you want, but let's stop ripping on the critic.

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