Sound guys, on sound

After I complained about the sound at the Sleigh Bells show on Thursday, a friend on Facebook sent me a link to this post on a music-production blog.It's titled "5 reasons why concerts sound so bad." The author of the post, Bobby Owsinski, lays out his take on what may have gone wrong when a show sounds bad. A FB friend who's in a band and owns a club, shared the link and a bunch of Kansas City soundmen weighed in on the topic. Some of their FB posts are listed below. Even if  you're a  layman concert-goer, this stuff is interesting and pertinent.

• "1-5, all spot on. intelligibility is the thing you really gotta work for in that barn (the Beaumont)."
• ‎8x4 baffles would really help that room... and they are cheap to make
• Improper system calibration is also very common- Especially time-alignment. If a PA system isn't tuned right, there is nothing that the FOH engineer can do to fix it. That said, I still agree with the blog. Add over-compression to the list.
• Here is the part he left out. VERY IMPORTANT!!! Geetar players. You are NOT the most important musician on the stage. STOP playing at a volume that could fill a small arena. This will help the sound man get that vocal to cut thru the mix. I learned to turn my bass down a LONG time ago in a live setting but guitar players have a ton of issues learning to do this. The best live players know exactly how to get good tone with out have to crank the crap out of the amp to get it.
• I agree with this article for the most part. I do this for a living though and I will say that at some venues the problem lies with the FOH mixer and at some places the equipment is not up to snuff. The worst is when you have both of those problems. Not going to name any names though...
• Loud doesn't mean good, that's the problem I have with most touring engineers in there. His midrange last night was so beefed up to buzz saw levels that my eardrums hurt in the office. ... My other favorite touring live sound problem is "this is my USB with my mix of the band, import it into your console in a completely different room from where the mix originated...cuz if my mix doesn't sound good, it's a problem with your gear or the room."
• I see little to no sound baffling/ acoustic treatment in most venues. Amazing that a place to see music isn't designed to see music at all. The only option left is to over power the bouncing around decay from poor acoustics to try to make some intelligibility. Most places spend a lot of money on equipment and are done spending when it comes to room treatment, which i feel should have been figured in from the start. Some bands stage sound can make it a little easier to work with, if they have decent tones, volume and songs. Also Remember one thing here: a sound man can't make a horrible band sound good! Band vocalists - a little mic technique research will go a long way. When you sing quietly- get close to the mic. When you sing loudly- back off of the mic. It amazes me how many don't get this concept. Some systems aren't set up correctly- time aligned or just basic room coverage.  Some engineers don't understand that live mixing is supplementary to the stage sound. If guitars on stage are on 10, they probably shouldn't be up high on the fader. I think the kick drum mixed up front issue is from sound men that like to see what the system will do, as opposed to mixing for the music. Understanding the music is pretty important also. Dance music likes mucho kick drum and folk probably not so much.
• I half agree about mix recall, if the mix is legit in the first place, it should translate, presuming same players/instruments/mics. But the buck does stop at the FOH engineer to find the issues, adapt the system, and if the gear isn't up to snuff address it before you get there!
• It costs less to treat a room than to buy awesome gear. If the room sounds good and the band knows what they're doing then the FOH job gets so much easier. You can have a super basic system in a great sounding room and hear every word being said on stage.
• While I in no way am saying that my place is the best sounding in the city, the gear overall is not crap and is very well maintained by DSS. Yes, the room needs some treatment but until people show up to events having bought a ticket and bands start to realize they are not worth the amount of people that their guarantees demand, fighting for installation of baffling is a losing battle. Its not as cheap as you think for a room that size. If you disagree, I will gladly pass a quote for services up the food chain. :)
• I will say that The Beaumont has been one of my favorite places to see bands and has sounded good back in the day, but that was when the room was packed with human baffling and a huge sound rig. As someone in the restaurant/bar business and musician, I know that The Beaumont is kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place with acoustic improvements, and a bigger PA is not really the answer. That being said, It is still providing one of the only places that makes ease of operation for local bands trying to put on their own shows.
• I'm the system tech at The Beaumont and have done, eh, 300+ shows in that room so I'd like to add my own two cents. Everything said above is 110% accurate. I never, ever, mix loud in that room. The system processor doesn't sound good when you push it, and the room sounds worse. I'm definitely the first to reach for some plugs when a guys asks 'How much has the system got? Okay, I have all of it'. There is one element you guys have left out though; what the band wants it to sound like out front. I got Sleigh Bells' advance and read 'clear undistorted 120dB at mix position' and thought 'here we go again'. But when their FOH got to the venue and we had a chance to talk I realized that the 120dB was a stipulation the band had made, not him. In fact he told me that on their days off, they usually ride or relax in silence. 'Probably for me more than anything' is what he said. So I honestly believe he would have just loved to bring his mix down to a paltry 100dB (haha) to make things a little more confortable and listenable, but he seemed to like his job. The guitar/monitor volume issue in that room is also tough to contend with when you turn them into 'the loudest guitar amp you've ever heard'. One of the guitar players and the FOH are actually with Poison The Well also, which explains the 110dB on stage. In any case, they were all super nice people and I wish them the best. And ear plugs.
• Having done 10-15 Poison the Well shows over the years, I felt comfortable telling Ryan (the FOH) after the show that is was loud enough to make me ill. He agreed and said "they have me do it every night". Bummer.

Comments

[LiveMusicFan]

Interesting read. And it's amazing how different a show can sound depending on who the soundman is. Good soundmen are worth their weight in gold.

[Aaron]

2 reasons the sound was terrible at Sleigh Bells.

1: It was at the Beaumont
2: It was Sleigh Bells

[Green]

I like some of Sleigh Bells music but live they are way to loud, there is a lot of speaker distortion in the songs, think NIN but with a pop rock vibe. When that is then blasted it makes for awful acoustics know matter where you are, the road manager should fix this but clearly he/she loves the mix so it's what it is. I suppose the Beaumont doesn't help. Curious what the reviews were like when they played the Blue Note in Columbia back in the spring?

[913KCKKID]

You know what the difference is between a sound man and God? God doesn't think he's a sound man. Best mixer in KC history was the guy that mixed Blue Riddim after Jack Allen left for the Zoo Band, early to mid 80's. When they played the old Parody Hall on 39th street it was like listening to an album through studio monitors.

[wadkc]

I saw Sleigh Bells at SXSW and they loved the loud down there also, at least for the 2 songs I suffered thru.

[wadkc]

After seeing zillions (not quite) shows at the Beaumont, the best "sounding" show was LL Cool J with a live band. Clean as possible. Another good one was Dwight Yoakam and his brother acoustic. Very ear friendly.

[Kurt]

I think the best sounding show for me was Trans-Siberian Orchestra in 2009, 2010 and 2011 at the Sprint Center. It was so clear and could hear every part down to the small string orchestra and my ears didn't even ring after, their show.

Another show with an excellent sound system was Genesis on their Invisible Touch tour in 1987 at Kemper Arena. It was loud, but not too loud and up front and clear. Genesis show at Cyclone Stadium in Ames,IA in 1992 sounded really good also. It was louder than, their indoor show but, the sound was great in the back of the stadium.

The seven times I've seen Rush had a great sound system also. I've seen Rush in both arenas and outdoor venues.

[joe]

Roger Waters, The Wall at the Sprint Center in 2010 was the best sounding show I had ever heard. Someone told me that he was touring with an Analog Sound board vs. Digital. I'd be interested in hearing from those in the know as to how much of a difference this makes.

[KC Jones]

Buddy Miles at the Hurricane was the loudest concert I've EVER been to, I thought my ears were gonna bleed. I BEGGED the sound man to turn it down, but he refused, saying "Mr. Miles prefers it at this volume". F - that. The place emptied out pretty quickly. I could feel my hearing ability waning by the second. I went to the outside stage where some DJ was, on you could still CLEARLY hear the inside show, even over the DJ's canned set.