(Interview by Bill Brownlee for The Kansas City Star.)
John McEuen has been in the music business for 40 years, most famously with the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. All that experience has given him plenty to talk about, and he’s not shy about saying what’s on his mind.
McEuen is in Kansas City for the next few days (details at the end of the post). He has three performances scheduled in Kansas City the next few days: two solo shows at the Mountain Music Shoppe in Shawnee; and a gig at Ameristar Casino with the “Party in the Dirt Tour,” featuring the Dirt Band plus Poco and Jim Messina.
McEuen talked to The Star recently, and he addressed a variety of topics, such as:
The vibe at Mountain Music Shoppe: “It’s like the old days in a good way.”
His fondness for Kansas City: “It started at the Vanguard. Then the Cowtown Ballroom came around. The Dirt Band has the record for the number of times for a group to play the Cowtown. In fact, we were the last group to play there. We closed it down. Kansas City was such a great town for us that we’d book our days off there so we could go to Jim & Mary’s Steak House or the Polynesian place on Broadway. We’ve always looked forward to playing Kansas City.”
Tourmates Jim Messina and Poco: “I met Jimmy Messina before Poco existed. He had me listen to a demo he just cut. He said, ‘I think this song is perfect for the Dirt Band.’ But we turned it down. It was ‘Your Mama Don’t Dance and Your Daddy Don’t Rock and Roll.’ And after we turned it down they decided they’d put it out themselves.
“The original Poco opened for the Dirt Band at the Troubadour in L.A. Oh, my God, was that an awakening! It was like having the Beatles opening for you in Liverpool. It’s a really neat reuniting of the forces of L.A. people. And we’re going to meet in a perfect town to see what happens that night.”
Gram Parsons: “I never understood the Gram Parsons infatuation. He wrote a few good songs, but so did John Denver and Steve Goodman. They believed in what they did so much that they kept doing it. They put music first. I wasn’t really a fan of Gram Parsons.”
The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band’s long career: “This is a group that’s been around for 42 years, and in every decade of its existence we’ve had records on the radio or made an album that won some kind of award or recognition or won a Grammy. The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band is not a group that had a few hits in the ’70s and has been living off of those every since. On the other hand, it took us 17 years to have our first No. 1 record. When everyone thought the group was over, ‘Fishing in the Dark’ came out. The Dirt Band keeps plugging away.”
His beginnings: “I knew when I heard the Byrds on the radio — ‘Mr. Tambourine Man’— on the way to college. I knew their bass player, Chris Hillman, was from a San Diego bluegrass group. I thought, ‘Well, maybe there’s a chance.’ Then the Dirt Band got together, and we started doing it. That’s the magic of America. You can do what you want and take it as far as you want.”
The classic and influential “Will the Circle Be Unbroken” album: If there’s any one thing that I think the Dirt Band has never been recognized in doing, it’s that a group of guys with three hit records in a row risked their entire career by recording an acoustic album with what the Nashville Tennessean called ‘a bunch of old dinosaurs.’ We made an album that some people call “the father of ‘O’ Brother.’”
Two people he most regrets not working with: “Paul McCartney and John Denver. I knew Denver and spent time with him. He sat in with us, but I always wanted to record with him. And McCartney, well, maybe there’s a mandolin part I could put on one of his recordings.”
His advice to his children, also professional musicians: “Keep their eyes open. Realize that it is the music business. There are two words to it. If you don’t love it, do something else. It’s never been easy. It probably never will be.”
How hits are made: “I don’t feel like bands write hit records. People don’t write hit songs. The audience makes them a hit.”
His shows this week in Kansas City: “If people come to this show, you’ll see three groups of people who have been influential in American music. They all love what they’re doing so much that they’re still doing it.”
TONIGHT
John McEuen performs at 6 and 9 p.m. at Mountain Music Shoppe, 12710 Shawnee Mission Parkway. Visit mountainmusicshoppe.com (913-962-9711).
FRIDAY
The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band joins Poco and Jim Messina for the “Party in the Dirt Tour” at Ameristar Casino. Tickets cost $30 to $55. Visit ameristarcasinos.com/kc.
That's rather arrogant to downplay Parsons, especially when Poco and the Eagles completely ripped off, excuse me, were influenced by the Burritto's.
Posted by: vichy | April 03, 2008 at 09:33 AM
I agree. Gram Parson has earned his legend by writing some really great songs and more or less inventing Country Rock. Sure, he was a mess and unfortunately gets dismissed by some for what he did offstage, but his influence cannot be challenged. How many bands did Poco and The Nitty Gritty Dirt band inspire? I don't dislike either band, but The Flying Burrito Brothers were better and neither band made an album to equal The Byrds/Parsons project, 'Sweetheart of the Rodeo, which still sounds good to this day.
Posted by: Keith in KC | April 03, 2008 at 10:36 AM
Let's not write off the Springfield in all this. They probably had a greater influence on Poco and the Eagles than Parsons, especially in light of the fact that Ritchie Furay came from the Springfield.
Posted by: Casady | April 03, 2008 at 10:59 AM
John Denver? Wha? He fills up my senses with sap.
Posted by: RaiderHawk | April 03, 2008 at 11:01 AM
I was not influenced by Gram.. only heard him.. and 'of' him.. around 1973 or so.. I never listened to Burritos other than a couple of times live when Clarence was with them.. thought the Byrds song choices were great.. did not listen to that Sweethearts album. Not liking someone's music make me arrogant? and you apparently do not know much about Denver.. I made no negative comment about Parsons, only that I didn't 'get' him.. and still don't really. I listened to .. and recorded with.. others who I considered great. If my comment about Gram is arrogant, than what is the one about Denver..
Posted by: John currently in KC | April 03, 2008 at 11:19 PM
I think I can understand where he's coming from on that comment about Parsons. I didn't take it as negative at all.
Posted by: kcneon | April 04, 2008 at 12:05 AM
"I never understood the Gram Parsons infatuation."
"I wasn’t really a fan of Gram Parsons.”
Sorry John, but when you dismiss a songwriter who released more great music in less than a decade than the Dirt Band has in 40, than it does come off a bit arrogant. I enjoyed much of your music, as well as the music of Poco and Jim Messina, but for a lot of music fans, myself included, the music of Parsons still inspires and moves me.....and I can't remember the last time I had the urge to pull out a Dirt Band or Poco album. To each his/her own. Anyway, hope you have a great show tonight.
Posted by: Keith in KC | April 04, 2008 at 05:42 PM
again.. I do not dismiss his songs. I am glad they reached you. Wish there had been more. But, He did not 'reach' me. Johnny Cash did.Maybelle Carter.. EArl Scruggs did.. and Steve Vai.. Vassar.. Merel Travis..Loggins.. as did John Denver and Stevie Goodman.. Gram wrote a few good songs, but theirs were more akin to my liking.. not just because I know/knew them or recorded with them (well, not with Denver). Had I had better chance to 'get to know' Gram I might have, but he was the one who seemed by all accounts arrogant, and I chose not to, but instead to associate with those above who did not. You may disdain
the NGDB or others, but I feel lucky there are those who feel the way about us that you do about Parsons. I have what I consider a meager talent compared to those I have been fortunate to record or play with, but I use it as best I can, and love doing it. Gram did not. I did not and do not respect that. . .as for tonight's show, it went over so well I said as I do in a case like tonight 'we fooled them again..."
Posted by: John currently in KC | April 05, 2008 at 02:16 AM
John: Thanks for coming to KC and for having invested so much of your passion into this town over the years ... and for being such a great, great guy when you used to stop by the place I used to work, Capers Corner Records.
I have a feeling your 'critic' here has no idea whatsoever of how pivotal the first Will The Circle Be Unbroken was at the time. I just played it the other day from beginning to end and after all these years, it's still a stunner that's almost impossible to put into context ... because it really was as unprecedented in many ways as you suggest.
And before that other guy starts lobbing bombs my way, I'm also a huge GP/FBB fan and Grievous Angel is one of my top ten favorite albums of all time. Gram's duet with Emmylou on "Love Hurts" is a thing of wonder. That appreciation is untouched by your feelings about the guy's music - as we'd both agree it should be.
On the other hand, if you liked something and wanted to recommend it, I'd sure rather take the word of a guy who has spent 40 years in the music business than your average blogger here.
By the way, John, speaking of artists I enjoy - what's Jeff Hanna's wife Matraca Berg up to these days? What a gifted songwriter and a powerful antidote to the Shania Twains of the world.
More than anything, John, thanks for checking in. Mike W.
Posted by: Mike | April 06, 2008 at 11:50 PM
Re: Matraca Berg.
"Sunday Morning to Saturday Night" is a fantastic album.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WgWh3BDCw3M
http://www.last.fm/music/Matraca+Berg/_/Along+for+the+Ride
Posted by: Norville Barnes | April 07, 2008 at 03:53 PM
Mike says, "I'd sure rather take the word of a guy who has spent 40 years in the music business than your average blogger here."
Really? Many musicians John McKuen's age are usually out of touch musically and many refuse to accept any new influences. Read any recent interview with the likes of Bob Dylan, The Stones, Lou Reed, Joni Mitchell, etc., all of whom I love, but many of these artists seem to have blinders on when it comes to most music made in the past couple of decades. They couldn't be bothered, to their detriment.
As far as trusting someone musically who has been in the music business for 40 years, well, Barry Manilow has been in the music business for over 40 years. Should I trust his musical recommendations? John McKuen can downplay Gram Parsons if he likes and I will still appreciate some of the NGDB's work. You say that 'Will The Circle Be Unbroken' was pivotal "in it's time." Great, but it certainly didn't have the shelf life of 'The Gilded Palace of Sin.'
Posted by: Mico | April 07, 2008 at 09:01 PM
Mico:
I have my subscriptions to Mojo, Uncut, Paste et al and I have ready access to the posts of "the average blogger" - which was meant to be self-effacing and not directed at others here, by the way. I recognize now that I could have made that more clear.
I didn't say I'd necessarily agree with whatever Mr. McKuen recommended, but yeah I'd always be curious to know what he likes. Given the 'bridge' that NGDB provided to their predecessors with the original WTCBU, I'd love to see what they might do with a younger set. I have the 'sequels' but what I'd really like would be to hear how they might sound in the role of 'elder statesmen' backing the likes of a Josh Ritter for example.
Again, I'm a big Byrds/FBB/Gram fan but I have the feeling, too, that I may be a bigger NGDB fan than some other folks here and that's okay by me. I don't need to defend or champion my tastes.
A memorable show was a solo set McKuen played at the Uptown - around 1980 perhaps? Not only was it wonderful musically but on that stage by himself, he presented a deadpan version of himself. Hey John ... 'it was in tune when I bought it!'
Regards,
Mike
PS - thanks for the Matraca Berg link Norville!!
Posted by: Mike | April 08, 2008 at 12:30 AM
I ran sound for John and Ibbitson at a small theatre in Oregon several years ago. I was thrilled just to have the opportunity....until the sound check, when John was the most arrogant ass I have ever worked with. My own bands have opened for many national acts, that have sold millions more than the Dirt Band...and they were all humble and just glad to still be appreciated. John assumed I didn't know what a certain piece of gear was, and I almost said FU and walked after he barked at me.
After all these years, I see I am not the only one to sense his inflated sense of importance.
Dropping names, and then knocking Parson's...sheer genius.
Posted by: Dan | March 03, 2009 at 11:25 PM