Review: Kanrocksas, Day 1

Eminem at the Main Stage Friday night at Kanrocksas. Photos by Jim Barcus/The Star

Day 1 of the inaugural Kanrocksas Music Fest was everything its organizers promised: one long day of radically diverse music in a setting suited for a large crowd. If the estimated attendance of between 30,000 and 35,000 was smaller than anticipated, that was the only measure that did not exceed expectations. 

Everything else about Friday was top-notch and world-class, especially the production. No matter where you stood, sound at every stage was clean; the video displays at the main stages were vibrant and clear. If the festival miscalculated anything it was how many diversions were needed. The Ferris wheel and water slide seemed to get little traffic, mostly because fans were content to go from stage to stage, including the Critical Mass Tent, home of electronic music, which was busy all day but especially during later sets. 

The festival’s marquee name, Eminem, drew by far the day’s largest crowd and one that was familiar with his entire 90-minute set. He had help: a large band that pretty much stayed in the background, a DJ and lots of vocal assistance and crowd-stoking from his sidekick Mr. Porter. 

He opened with “Won’t Back Down,” a cut from “Recovery,” his latest full-length album and the follow-up to “Relapse.” Recover, revival, return: all were the theme of the evening for a guy who had been conspicuously absent from the music scene for a while but has returned at full-throttle.

His live presentation was standard – not too many frills beyond the video production (which was pretty old-school) and some sound effects (simulated gunfire after “Kill You”) -- but it hummed with nonstop energy.

His rapid-fire vocal skills are as dynamic as his clever writing style; and several times he and Mr. Porter showed off some deft call/response choreography.

The entire show was a reminder of how huge and popular he was. And still is. The setlist included plenty of standards and favorites – tracks that prompted plenty of sing-/rap-alongs, even among concession workers as they sold beers, brats and burgers (see setlist).

Eminem brought up his Missouri heritage; he’s from St. Joe and reportedly a large contingent of his family, including a grandmother, was present. He told a story about shopping at a Kmart in his hometown, where the sales clerk (whom he described lovingly but disparagingly) said she got messed up every day to his “Recovery” album. Other than that, he was pretty much all business. 

Towards the middle of the set, he brought out D12 and Royce Da 5’9 for several numbers. He also paid tribute to the late Nate Dogg. But otherwise this was his night, his show and, let’s face it, his festival. He ended with a furious version of “Lose Yourself,” his manifesto about working to get your shot and then giving it your all.  Before that, he delivered a medley of some of his best and most beloved tracks, including “Without Me,” a rap that laments his brief absence from the scene back in 2002: “No matter how many fish in the sea / It’ll feel so empty without me.”

He is swimming in different waters these days, and he isn’t lightning rod he once was, but Eminem still has, and still deserves, a place of prominence in our music world. – Timothy Finn, The Star 

Eminem setlist: Won’t Back Down; 3 a.m.; Square Dance; W.T.P.; Kill You; No Love; So Bad;  Cleanin’ Out My Closet; Fight Music (with D12); Purple Pills (with D12); Fast Lane (with Royce Da 5’9); Lighters (with Royce Da 5’9); Airplanes part 2; Stan; Sing for the Moment; Like Toy Soldiers; Till I Collapse; Cinderella Man; I Love the Way you Lie; I Need a Doctor; My Name Is/The Real Slim Shady/Without Me; Not Afraid. Encore: Lose Yourself. 

Here’s a look at some of the other music from Day 1: 

Fitz and the Tantrums: They opened the main stage with a punchy set of R&B rave-ups squarely in the tradition of Ike and Tina Turner.  Much like an old-fashioned soul review, the California-based band played a mix of impressive original material and satisfying covers.  A rendering of the band's breakthrough song, "MoneyGrabber," was spirited, but delightful transformations of The Raconteurs' "Steady, As She Goes" and The Eurhythmics' "Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)" sent an early-arriving audience of about 3,000 into a frenzy.  Saxophonist and flautist James King and dynamic vocalist Noelle Scaggs made particularly stellar contributions, although Scaggs' whining about the heat didn't endear her to concertgoers who would spend all day in the sun. -- Bill Brownlee/Special to The Star 

D12: Its performance for an audience of over 2,000 on the Stageasaurus Rex stage started more than 20 minutes behind schedule -- the first of many rap stereotypes that D12 would exhibit.  The formulaic and cliche-ridden effort by Eminem's cohorts from Detroit included countless references to marijuana and precisely the same unimaginative crowd participation exercises conducted by almost every uninspired hip hop act.  Even worse, D12 seemed to be rapping over unaltered copies of its own recordings.  Although he wasn't on stage with his colleagues, Eminem's voice could occasionally be heard in the mix.  Renditions of otherwise excellent songs like "40 Oz.", consequently, were disappointing.  -- BB

Doomtree: It's unfortunate that most of D12's fans didn't stick around for the next act on the Stageasaurus Rex stage.  The collective from Minnesota was as innovative as D12 was stale.  Performing with an uncommon urgency, members of Doomtree won over an audience of about 500.  Dessa was particularly mesmerizing.  As the set concluded with "Low Light Low Life," young women were screaming with delighted shock at each of the female rapper/vocalist's creative verses.  Drawing on indie rock and performing boundless energy, Doomtree represents the best of what the hip hop underground has to offer. -- BB

Jack’s Mannequin: Its winning white bread pop was accompanied by the ecstatic screams of female fans at the Ad Astra Stage.  Performed with the passionate fervor associated with Christian rock, the secular act's songs are frothy but likable.  About 2,000 fans enjoyed the California-based band's inspirational sounds. -- BB 

Arctic Monkeys:  The boys from Sheffield, England, took over the main stage at the height of the heat but did not wither or wane. The Monkeys blend British pop with strains of post-wave and indie rock that makes for some frenetic, energetic fun that spread to a crowd of about 5,000

Droll and witty frontman Alex Turner promised he’d ration the chit-chat and stick to the music, and he did, though he politely thank the crowd a couple of times for enduring the heat. Thus they packed more than 10 songs into a brisk 40-minute set that included “Library Pictrures,” “This House is a Circus,” “Still Take You Home,” “Don’t Sit Down, ‘Cause I’ve Moved Your Chair,” “The View from the Afternoon,” an amped-up version of “I Bet You Look Good on the Dancefloor” and, as if it were a wish, “When the Sun Goes Down.” -- TF

Kid Cudi: The breakout performance Friday at Kanrocksas belonged to Kid Cudi.  The sight of over 10,000 sets of synchronized hands waving in the air to Kid Cudi's songs proved that the hip hop artist from Cleveland has successfully made the transition from developing artist into a full-blown star. 

With a lyrical emphasis on alienation and escapism and a sound based on psychedelic beats, the music of Kid Cudi is the hip hop equivalent of Pink Floyd.  Dark Side of the Moon surely inspired Kid Cudi's popular Man On the Moon series of albums.  The classic rock sensibility is as much a part of Kid Cudi's aesthetic as the work of Jay-Z or Snoop Dog.  Wearing a Joan Jett and the Blackhearts t-shirt, Kid Cudi made repeated references to marijuana. 

"You guys are my stoner choir," Kid Cudi said after the audience sang along to "Mr. Rager." His music has been adopted by young suburban skaters and slackers as their disaffected soundtrack of choice.  A passionate chant of "Cudi! Cudi! Cudi!" followed a version of "Memories," the artist's hit collaboration with French DJ and producer David Guetta. 

"We're here to party," Kid Cudi said.  "No ifs, ands or buts."  And that's precisely what went down during Kid Cudi's exemplary outing.  -- BB 

Primus: Immediately after Kid Cudi's accessible set, thousands migrated to the Stageasaurus Rex stage to catch absurdist funk band Primus.  Most treated the trio as an amusing oddity.  Frank Zappa-inspired songs like “John the Fisherman” offer few points of entry for the uninitiated. -- BB 

Ween: The organizers of Kanrocksas are to be commended for booking a dazzlingly diverse lineup.  Ween, a notoriously uncategorizable band, fit the event's eclectic sensibility.   The act's hour-long performance at the Ad Astra Stage represented a miniature one-hour music festival.  Every song was performed in a different style.  "My Own Bare Hands" evoked the vintage heavy metal of Blue Oyster Cult while "Your Party" was pure yacht rock.  Ween also adopted the guises of a mean-spirited jam band and a Bakersfield-style honky tonk act.   Even stranger was a faithful replication of David Bowie's "Let's Dance."  Ween's stunning performance for a relatively small audience of about 1,500 true believers confirmed that the band's reputation as musical outsiders is well deserved. -- BB

Bassnectar: The California DJ (Lorin Ashton) drew a big crowd (8,000 plus, I’d guess, conservatively), many of whom were also getting prime position for Eminem’s ensuing set at the Main Stage. His throbbing, bass-laden compositions mix several genres (rap, reggae, rock and pop), but he deftly changes tempos and dynamics, sometimes dramatically, but keeping the crowd enthralled all the while. He garnished his 60-minute set with some trippy videos and visuals on the giant screen behind him and the two that flanked the enormous stage. Among his samples: Gogol Bordello’s “Imigrandiada (We’re Comin’ Rougher),” Madison Aveue’s “Don’t Call Me Baby” and a song by Ellie Goulding, who had performed earlier at the Ad Astra Stage. -- TF

Flaming Lips: They brought the usual – lots of toys: the “space ball,” as Wayne Coyne called it; smoke, balloons and confetti; an uber-psychedelic video show; and two ensembles of Wizard of Oz characters (including plenty of Dorothys) who flanked each side of the stage. And they put on their usual kid-like spectacle. Compared to previous Lips shows, Coyne was relatively reserved during the 70-minute set, which drew about 12,000 to the Ad Astra Stage, including a lot of wide-eyed, bemused first-timers.

The band (including drummer/Lawrence native Kliph Scurlock) entered the stage through the iris of an eyeball on the video screen, and descended a slide, all to the strains of Faust’s “It’s a Rainy Day.” They then proceeded with a setlist that included “Oh My Pregnant Head (Labia in the Sunlight),” “She Don’t Use Jelly,” “Is David Bowie Dying,” “Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots, Part 1” and the standard closer, their transcendent live-for-today hymn, “Do You Realize,” unleashed along with a blizzard of confetti and a gust of joie-de-vivre. -- TF

Comments

[Steve J]

30K-35K? Heck that's a Royals-Yankee game. I might have been able to handle that crowd. Oh well.

Looks like the day (and event) went well, but I wonder if a profit can be made with that kind of crowd?

[jjskck]

I can't begin to speculate on their break-even point for ticket sales, but all the word of mouth I've heard has been overwhelmingly positive. That will help draw some of the cynics out of their houses and out to the speedway in future years...or even today, for that matter.

[KC Jones]

Thanks for the good words on Ween. Their festival sets tend to be Ween-Lite, as a normal show of theirs regularly clocks in at over 3 hours. The only downside of them playing Kanrockas is that Ween probably won't be around these parts for another 4 years (last time was Summer 2007).

[pendletonheights]

Did the Lips really play "Oh My Pregnant Head"? This is the setlist that's been posted elsewhere on the internet:
Worm Mountain
She Don't Use Jelly
Is David Bowie Dying??
Yoshimi
See the Leaves
Laser Hands
Pompeii
What Is the Light??
The Observer
Do You Realize

[GB]

saw Perfect Circle and Muse yesterday in Chicago. KC is in for a treat with both today.

[Paul]

Can someone, anyone, please explain how this is considered "music"?

emeine my Name is /slim shady at BONNAROO 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GXOsH1M4Zc

Where is the talent? He is just talking/yelling/puking anybody could poop out this crap.

What the heck have we become?
when this is a headlining "act" at a music fest?

and dont say "people said that abouyt blah blah"..... blah blah had talent, they could play real songs, with melodies and lyrics, it wasnt just talking,,, they played songs.... maybe rebellious songs, but they had real, practiced talent... it was not like they were yelling at their mom/girlfriend.

[Mike]

Great shows and a great time yesterday at Kanrocksas, the organizers should be congratulated. Wish I had $$ to see Perfect Circle and Muse

[gonzo]

Primus, Ween, and The Flaming Lips were the true highlights of day 1. Can't wait to see who plays next year.

[Bob L.]

It's too bad no one could get over to The Joy Formidable's amazing early set over at the Ad Astra Stage. Most of the 1,000 or so who made it over there were left shaking their heads in amazement over the band's power. As Dave Grohl himself said, "A great mix of melody and complete chaos.

[Rappers shouldn't headline Rock Fests]

Eminem....?? Wigga, please!

[Gus]

I swear to God, if I was walking down the street and eminem was standing(posing) on the sidewalk, doing his lil act, I would laugh...

I would think it was funny. I would wonder what is this lil white, pissed off, skinny douche bag doing? spitting out that stupid crap? It would seem funny tome, like a white guy making fun of black rappers or seomthing...

But somehow he is popular and 35,000 people wanna see him...

I wouldnt even stop to see him on the sidewalk. I would just laugh and keep on walking... think wtf was that white idiot doing?

Id think what a nutty world.
I would wonder what is next???
Will we start glorifying people who join the army to kill people in far away lands for a job??
or can something as crazy as downgrading the USA credit rating happen in this nutty world?

PS
Tech9, ok I can see it, I aint no fan, but I understand the blacks liking his simple beat, his ghetto pissed off schtick....

but wtf about RICH white emeinm?
are you fking kidding me?
Is there a pranked camera hidden somewhere?

[giantslor]

"Can someone, anyone, please explain how this is considered "music"?"

C'mon now. I don't criticize your Lawrence Welk music.

"Tech9, ok I can see it, I aint no fan, but I understand the blacks liking his simple beat, his ghetto pissed off schtick...."

Jeez, shouldn't you be off burning a cross somewhere?

[Phil]

Suppose we can take that as "NO", no one can explain it.

Thanks for confirming

[Schizophrenia is curable]

Gus+giantslor+Phil=Ralph AKA Dump Troll AKA Crybaby.

But yeah, I hate Eminem as well......

[Hank]

Schiz is curable=KC Jones=whineycrybaby

[KC Jones]

You wish, buddy. I don't change my name like some people.

[Hank]

Yes you do, goofball. Come on man, we can see your ip address.

[KC Jones]

Nice try. Go ahead and post my IP address then. Let's see your masterful computing skills.

[WinstonKC]

Any constructive criticism on this thread? I'm trying to do some vicarious living! What was good? What would you like to see next year? Is Kanrocksas a keeper? What were the demographics? Hippies/rockers/hipsters?What was the scene like in the camground?

[Bubba]

If Kanrocksas does happen again in 2012 - I can see it having a better line-up. Sorry to hear about the 20-something man dying in his sleep. Saw on the news Chris Fritz saying that the (future) of the festival might be in jeopardy. Still think they might have lost a LOT of money. Saw some great fan videos on You Tube of FLAMING LIPS, PRIMUS, others. Glad everyone had a great time.

[Penny]

As for demographics, I'd say it was mostly kids. Some oldster hippies (like me), more rockers on the second day maybe, but mostly kids who have the energy to take on that enormous place in the extreme heat and love every minute of it. They were in their element. Some were a little smarter than others about pacing themselves and getting in out of the heat.

Don't know what the campground scene was like at night, but at least it cooled down by then, and they got a reprieve from the blistering sun with no trees or shade anywhere. They did provide showers and restrooms facilities and big tanks of water.

I heard someone suggest it be at the LIVEStrong stadium next year, not such a huge place to negotiate. That would cut out the camping aspect though.

I thought the promoters did a good job on a lot of counts. The diverse lineup was stellar, a little something for everyone. The bands started exactly on schedule and ended exactly on schedule, which was refreshing. They provided cooling tents and water refill stations with sprinklers. You didn't have to keep buying water. The food for sale was good quality and reasonable. There was recycling happening. One thing they could have paid more attention to was the handicapped; no specific parking area that was marked and not enough shuttle service going on. People had to park a mile or more away and they could have had a better way to get people in without walking that whole distance. (There was plenty of walking once you got in.)

The concourse was shaded and had a cool breeze blowing on the first day, but day 2 was 10 degrees hotter, so it took longer for the cool breeze to show up. But there was plenty of tables in the concourse, so one could escape into the shade and recover.

I thought a lot of good thought was put into it and of course there are always the things they missed, but hopefully it will get better if they decide to do it again. I heard they paid a lot for the big talent and there was a lot of overhead for sure, but I bet they made something on it.

I hope they do it again...

[Green]

It will be interesting to see if this event happens again, there are some hurdles to over come. One being the young man who died, that sort of thing really hurts these sort of events. I will say there was no reason for that to happen, there was free water running all day. Next year the track and infield will be under construction, that will make it tough to stage the festival events. All and all I thought the event was pretty well ran, I think you could rework the stages a little, maybe even having only two big stages and then a large tent or two, the walking from stage to stage was tiring, better on the second day with less shows on the main stage. Everyone seems to hate the name as well, so that might need some attention. What works great is the facility that can handle all the people with ease, in the end what doesnt is the exetreme heat, add in a construction site next year and you might have some problems. I wonder if something like this could in a stadium, stages on each end and they just flip back and forth the entire day. You get the facility perks, you get the enclosed area, you get parking, you also get seats, less movement between stages would be a plus as well, I suppose if it were at Livestrong you would have lower amount of tickets to sell but at Arrowhead you could hit some pretty good numbers and have places for outdoor tents.

[Kermit]

Penny, you are one of my heros.

If you have any video, and I am sure you do, please let us know when you post it.

Rock on beautiful :)

[Sam]

Went both days and they were both fantastic. Surprisingly great. Really hope they do it again next year. Girl Talk was the best show I have seen in a long time. Just amazing.

[Nicky]

I wonder why people are not
raving about this "Muse" thing? (
yeah, posted like the old fkr I am)
but isnt Muse supposed to be the 2nd coming of Pink Floyd or something spectacular? The ydid headlione/close the show... and not a word?

I have listend to some of Muse's songs and watched some video clips and... uh.... I wont say nothing at all, like my Grandma taught me.

[Penny]

I was too far away to get any real good footage, I stayed up in the stands near the concourse and didn't even attempt going down on the field. Tim is right about the sound being good and clean, even up into the stands. I had binoculars to see up close. But my granddaughter did take some footage of Muse as she was hanging off the barricade. I'll try to post some of it later...

[Kermit]

Thanks Penny...
but I have one question...

How does a beautiful, young, 22 year old looking hottie like you, have grandkids?

[nickthenerd]

Muse is awesome and put on a hell of a show...I'm sorry if you don't 'get it.'

I only went for the APC/Black Keys/Muse portion, but I came away pretty impressed by the setup and planning that went into Kanrocksas. I look forward to the festival next year...hopefully it's not in July/August though.

[Kurt]

When's the review of the 2nd day going to be posted? I'll bet the attendance was higher on Saturday than,Friday. Muse has to be a larger attraction than, Eminem in my opinion. I was surprised to hear that they estimated the Friday crowd at 30K to 35K. I would think that computers would be more accurate with the attendance figures. It sounds like all was planned really well and went smoothly also.

[Steve J]

Don't forget Chris Fritz also lost Kings of Leon at Sandstone. What a week! Life of a concert promoter.

I just don't get going to an event for that kind of money to read "I could not see anything". Put it this way...are you glad Foo Fighters did not play, so they can see them at Sprint Center?

[Sam]

If you weren't close you weren't trying. I was maybe 25 yards from Muse and there was lots of space around me. Not really a Muse fan but they were pretty good

[johnny]

Eminem was wearing a hoody in that heat? What a poser.

[Shelby]

Gotta give Chris Fritz props for doing his part to bring a music fest to our area. Thanks Chris, you da man....

and while we are at it, should we throw some bashing at the dump... nah... lets keep it positive, I am sure there will be a lot of other opportunites to say how much the dump sucks.

[cheap christian louboutin]

Let's do our best to do ourself ! Believe yourself ! You are the best!

[Sith]

awesome festival. we went the rock route and saw joy formidable, arctic monkeys, primus, ween, flaming lips, ok go, flogging molly, a perfect circle, the black keys, and muse.
it was like each band was better than the last.

the camping was amazingly easy to get into as was the whole entry/exit. most organized fest ive ever been to. well worth the drive from stlouis. we'll come again next year, but i'm not sure they can top this years lineup.

i've got a few short videos on youtube here of most the bands we saw:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL29CFF5D08830C26E

[Penny]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePDv8mAj06s&feature=player_embedded
here's some great footage of Muse...

[Randall]

The Joy Formidable did the best set I saw at all of Kanrocksas. Too bad they didn't get a write-up. (Wayne Coyne was watching from the side of the stage, too.)

[gonzo]

The Flaming Lips
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmz6FiZ9wtw

Ween
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmz6FiZ9wtw

Enjoy!

[gonzo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM82C1sFvNk

[Jethro]

Thanks for the link gonzo...

but... man.... I tried, I watched the Lips start that song.... but... uh... come on man...

Can anybody honestly say that that sounds any different than if you let loose some preschoolers to pluck and blow randomly on instruments? "bonk, twang, whiiirrrrzl, zap, clank, plunk, drum, bang, clank etc etc

honestly, no trolling...
the king is naked...
that is not music, it is random sounds
I could not make it past 30 seconds, how can that be popular?

[gonzo]

Thank you for the comment Jethro. Great review KC Star. I didn't get the first part of the song on camera, Wayne told the crowd about a new music app for the iphone, and Steven used it for a new song. I think it had a Kraftwerk vibe to it, very 8bit. The Lips are not that popular to everybody, but they were a major decider for me to buy a ticket to this fest. Did you see the price for a ticket? I only hope next year they have a bigger line up, oh, and the Lips promised to play the next Kanrocksas. I love live music, I love KC! Viva Rock & Roll!

[Say NO to Girl Talk]

I was OK until I read this from SAM: "Girl Talk was the best show I have seen in a long time. Just amazing."

Really? REALLY?? It just goes to prove that most (not ALL) young music fans these days have no appreciation for musicians, who take the time to work out actual songs, and instead, praise some bozo who can steal other artists music, and crap it back out to them, disguising their lack of talent with a crazy light show or some other lame-ass gimmick. These fan's gullibility is just shameful.

When you see and hear men and women blazing on guitars, bass, drums, keyboards, and maybe horns, working together spontaneously to produce actual music, it's hard for me to believe that anyone who would accept in it's place, a guy working a couple of laptops and not producing ANYTHING real. THAT guy should be laughed off the stage, but these days, they are called "genius." Completely %$#@ing unreal....and sad.

[cmh]

i really do not understand why folks feel so threatened because some people enjoy a different method of performance than the typical "musicians with instruments" setup. i am no girl talk fanatic, but is it really that hard to see why people enjoy it? he blends up dozens of pop hits and recontextualizes them in a fast, fun, ADD sequence. most people i know who like girl talk also enjoy plenty of " real bands."

"Say NO to Girl Talk" is just a pathetic wanker who wishes all the ladies would gyrate to his bedroom guitar-heroics instead of girl talk...

[Girl Talk is mute on talent]

If you are not British and just used the term "wanker"-well, ya just might wanna look in a mirror. Also unacceptable from non-Brits: "Spot on." Ya just come off like a pretentious idiot. As for Girl Talk, like ALL 'DJ Culture' and I use the term 'culture' loosely here, is just a sham. It's someone doing what you could do yourself. Lindsay &^%$ing Lohan is a "DJ"!! How hard could it be?? Pick up a guitar, learn to play a few chords and make actual music, and then get back to me. But I am not threatened by fake talentless, artists like Girl Talk.....DISGUSTED is more like it.......but, "Wanker??" Really, dude??

[cmh]

we get it: you don't like DJs or DJ culture. thanks for offering that unique perspective! but if you are so sensitive as to be "disgusted" because a young man can make the ladies go wild with his blend of pop and rock hits, you probably need to lighten up. do you really expect sorority girls to get wet over dream theatre or a buddy guy solo?

it's like in the 50s when parents who listened to benny goodman saw their kids dance to primitive rock n roll music from "talentless," crotch-thrusting hucksters...

as pathetic as you might think girl talk is for mixing pop music together in a dance context, it is even more pathetic to continually read the rants of "musicians" who feel jilted b/c the public isn't rewarding your fastidious study of scales and modes and playing along to steve vai in your bedroom. musicianship and technical skill on an instrument is great, but it's not the only way to make great music. (not saying girl talk is "great," but i am saying that the dogma of shredding isn't exactly something to live by...)

[Dave]

I have given a listen/look at these "bands" / "sound makers", I wnated to like them, I need some noew music..... but most of these these humans are making simple, soul-less, hollow sounds. It is not really music.

The popularity of these sounds is probably just another sign of the soul-less, hollow times we are living in.

And of course this huffing puffing goofball cmh is gonna huff and puff about it, and love iot, it is what it does. But once again there is no substance, please dont egg it on.

[troll alert]

Dave=dump troll

[Graham]

troll alert=NEW or K C Jones,
but is there really a difference?

not really.

[NEW]

Nope, not me DT.

By the way, how do you justify coming out here and talking about how you are just here to post your opinions and not throw any punches, then come out here and throw insults at other posters. A bit hypocritical, don't you think?

[Graham]

Niether K C Jones or NEW ever really post an original opinion about anything, they usually simply (as in simpletons) react to others and post about other posts... kind of like jackingoff to Playboy, versus getting a real woman.... but if it makes the little boys happy, let them play.